Microsoft is banning 360 firmware modders
After several months of silence it was more or less accepted that Microsoft wasn’t going to do anything about the firmware hacks that allow Xbox 360s to play backups. Rather surprising, considering the ‘inventor’ of the hack confirmed in March already that the mods are easily detectable, and the reports that piracy is running rampant in countries like China. It appears that Microsoft is finally taking action against them though, although they may be hitting the wrong persons.
Update 17 May 2007: If you are reading this you are probably looking for this recent article which confirms that the mass banning has indeed started today. The article you are currently reading dates from October 2006 and is outdated.
This thread on the official Xbox.com forums was started by Furydog, who posts with a completely empty gamer profile:
I have two xbox 360’s and since Friday October 13 2006 I have not been able to connect with my two 360’s. According to MS customer support my status codes indicate that I have MODDED 360’s which I don’t. I have contacted several different people and I only one person (GreenJohnny) has responded to me but he was not able to assist me. Although, he did confirm that the status codes I received indicate that my systems Mac addresses are banned because their supposedly MODDED.
Xbox Support stating there are status codes that indicate a machine was banned for modding? That’s a new one. To further confirm the story ILBCNU from Xbox Support Staff responds to his post stating they are investigating the issue and apologizing for the problem. No denial or anything, so yep, your modded Xbox 360 is now officially in risk of getting banned from Live or worse.
The fundamental problem with the firmware hack is that it’s a so-called Man in the Middle attack on the system’s security. Imagine a phone call between 2 English speaking people, and you’ve got control over the line in between. By cutting in at the right moments, you can make it appear to one of the participants that the other one is saying something to him, but it’s actually you saying something else and making him believe that it’s a valid response. That’s a simplified explanation of how the hacked firmware works: it lies to the 360 kernel about what the disc is saying about its authenticity. Now imagine if both the speakers on that phone line suspected you were in the middle, and switched to speaking a slightly modified dialect. If you’re still breaking in with the original dialect, it’s easily detectable that you’re trying to fool around. Back to the 360, since Microsoft still has absolute control over disc contents and the kernel code, they can simply change the dialect on both sides and thus detect firmware hacks. If they wish, they can take any action they want upon detection, ranging from the simple Xbox Live ban to even bricking your 360 or disabling it to run any newly released games.
There is something slightly fishy about the report though, being that it says the 360 is banned based on MAC address. Those of us familiar with the OSI model and common network implementations will immediately know this is not true, because MAC addresses are part of the Ethernet protocol and live on Layer 2, and never get routed over the internet. In simple terms: your 360s MAC address is not remotely identifiable. An option could be that the Xbox Live login code sends the MAC address itself to the Live servers to be able to uniquely identify the 360, but that would be plain silly since MAC addresses are known not to be unique: they only need to be unique within their physical subnet. A far more obvious solution on Microsoft’s part would be to use the console serial number for this, which is embedded in the system anyway and truly unique.
Drowning firmware chips in epoxy didn’t stop the modders…
Whatever the details, we can probably consider it a fact that MS is currently acting against modded Xbox 360s, and you should start worrying if you’ve got a firmware replacement in your concave box: the Empire is Striking Back.
Many thanks to Puma81 for the link!
Looks like bad news for would be modders. Bad news for importers as well.
What does modding have to do with importing?
Money.
to get round the region locks
Hacked fw does nothing for region locks.
hmm they can ban people off live… wont stop piracy. people will still download games and just play them in single player. m$ also make money off modders cos many of them pay for xbox live gold. so in effect, if they ban they will lose their xbox subscription money. all banning will do it stop future xboxes from being modded. existing modders will still have an easy ride and ms can still make money off them if they dont ban
It’s better than the modders using hacked game code to give themselves unfair advantages online.
It’s about time they’re doing this, and it seems the person who complained, does infact have a modded xbox and is trying to appear innocent. (Much like those who tried to get unbanned from Halo 2 for modding, claiming they didn’t).
^^^
FYI: noone broke the signature yet…thus no unsinged code…yet
it will if they put updates on game dvd, as has been done already
Nobody, not Sony, Nintendo, or even MS make money on the game consoles. The ca$h is in the games.
Unless You’re loaded and can afford 2 360s modding doesn’t really make sense well if you wanna go online at least.
I truly, truly question this all:
“Back to the 360, since Microsoft still has absolute control over disc contents and the kernel code, they can simply change the dialect on both sides and thus detect firmware hacks.”
So let me get this straight. If they change the dialect on both sides, the original old firmware that was original should also communicate with the new language. Why would the original old FW’s could do that and the hacked ones won’t?
Second. It means that all the games out yet, will communicate in the old way/language (let’s say English instead of Chinese) and suddenly the old games won’t work or make you get a ban because it’s not the new language inthere?
The hacked FW isn’t an alien. It’s a modified original FW. I really doubt these statements still I am not a hacker so my knowledge doesn’t go that far although I base some of these statements on logical thinking. Although I don’t say I know, just for discussion.
I am curious if someone is able to reply with some facts
Does it matter? As long as they elicit another response than the original one would’ve given, they know it’s a fake. Not even a need to actually change the protocol, they can just continue using the original protocol after the check.
And like Robinsod said at the time: there are modifiers in the code which he hadn’t seen used at the time.
It’s a fact of life that a Man in the Middle attack is always detectable by simply feeding erroneous data. Unless the hack is featurecomplete, which would require the Microsoft private key, there’s always going to be wrong replies that can be triggered by the outside parties. And if the private key was known every 360 out there would be running XBMC on Linux by now.
When searched to correctly, it all seems to come down to this:
“Conclusion:
As of today , none of these extra disc checks are being performed, but it is only a matter of time before a game will. The same sort of checks were introduced to XBox1 games a while ago. I performed an exhaustive check of every command that the Samsung firmware can respond to and these differences were discovered.
The Samsung firmware only supports a limited subset of commands from the MMC-3/4 standards so not all commands exist compared to a standard PC drive, so anyone testing for media specific information should bear this in mind.
Non-Stealth backups will still boot with stealth firmware and will be enhanced with the PSN Lockdown and PFI Sector embedded in the firmware. These backups will have no DMI and possibly have a blank video partition, both of which can be checked for.
Stealth backups will still boot with non-stealth firmware but will be exposed to the above top three differences (PSN Lockdown,PFI,DMI) making the backup detectable. Correct Video partition is present.”
PSN/PFI/DMI aren’t in check yet, but could come. The newest hacks already has those secured when I read it.
The 31st a new dashboard update would arrive yeah? I bet many ppl with modded drives out there will sweat through the whole night hahaaa
I believe “changing dialect” means MS will look for another way to authentic the disc instead of current way of looking for the flag, which what the firmware mod doing now. Will the hacker found a new way to circumvent it remains to be seen, but what’s for sure is that current hack won’t work anymore.
And XBOXIC, this:
“considering the ‘inventor’ of the hack confirmed in March already that the mods are easily detectable”
Is very old news, as those FW’s from march were open, non stealth ones. What about the newest once, even for the T/S drive 100% FW and media stealth?
My 360 is not modded so no worries overhere but I bet there are much modded ones out there, as I speak to ppl that have it on UNO regularly…
Any SLIGHT change in the firmware WILL be noticable. A single character added or modified in a file will be visible as the signatures, checksums, and size will have changed.
Well could be. But what about them being 100% FW and Media stealth. Which actually is impossible to check anything by MS?
As already is the original MS28 FW on the T/S drives? It’s not accessible in a normal way. As are the newest FW hacks that can only be read with SATA of 360 disconnected, only on PC, starting in a special read mode.
I really think it’s another message to scare the ones that did mod their drives. Especially seen the efforts MS puts in those new FW’s and even new build Hitachi drives that are harder to get hacked.
There is no 100% fool proof way they can resign something as Microsoft. Microsofts security key has yet to be broken, as Curry pointed out. That’s why homebrew just refuses to run.
People can CLAIM they’re 100% stealth, but that is only because Microsoft hadn’t checked up til now.
And G Unit… I may be wrong then. I suppose the modded game content is down to SATA reading devices.
All the firmware hack does is modify a subset of the original firmware’s features. The vast majority of the code is still the original MS code. All that was changed were the responses to ATA commands that distinguish between a burned DVD and the original media. As mentioned elsewhere, an exhaustive check of ALL POSSIBLE commands has been done, and the places where a burned DVD with a ‘hacked’ game were different have been found and modified. Therefore, because the only interface the OS has to the drive is through the ATA connection, and because all possible ATA commands have been found, and all differences removed, I propose that they are indeed completely stealth.
The mod does not allow you to modify code in games… It only allows the BOOTING of games by bypassing the security sector… How are people cheating at UNO?
why are people cheating at uno?
100% stealth doesn’t exist. Thing is that half the security is stored on the GAME DISCS, which are unmodifiable for the time being. The firmware hack cannot predict what Microsoft will do with any new Dashboard update or a new game release. Both might simply be updated, and if the firmware doesn’t translate it correctly: you’re screwed.
good, I would hate to see people cheating and/or downloading games…
i think the guy is lying he’s just trying to get unbanned like the people for Halo2 were when they were blacklisted.
H4XORS are teh lame. I better not get tagged as one, I’ll blow by f’in top.
Hacking, modding, flashing, booting - anything that remotly sounds like nerd techno thing to do with cheating your way of out £40 a game, is for the loss.
Even if this was true. I would not change anything. If lets say MS does something about modders (which is only about 1-2% of 360 owners) If they brick ppls drive they could be in some hot water. Ppl doactually OWN the 360 so they would be destroying property. I could see them banning from live but that may not be in thier best intrest either. Since ppl that are banned will not buy xbox live after being banned. Which they probably make a ton of money from at the moment since they won’t really make any from console sales till about this time next year.
to El $corpio: Cheating will happen on modded hardware just as easy. Sure some games can be modded if you have modded hardware. But some games are just not checked fully by the developers and cheaters find holes. As an example their is a new game for 360 that just released (about 2 weeks ago) and this game can help cheaters with making the multiplayer segment lag while in a game, Thus some things to attain a goal cannot be done.
They won’t brick, that’d get them sued to smithereens indeed. But banning a 360 from Live is imho akin to stripping the seats and windows from a car: it still drives, but not remotely as comfortable.
Thats dependable upon region. Modding any console is illegal in the US, the UK, and Australia. So bricking a 360 for a mod could indeed land Microsoft in trouble, but you’d end up paying more BACK in the counter-case where they sue you for piracy.
Modding a console is not illegal in the US. Pirating games is. Not all people who mod their Xboxs pirate games. I have purchased all my games, but I also run XBMC. With XBMC, my original Xbox runs circles around the media management abilities of the 360. I can stream basically any media file I want over my network to my home entertainment center. I also play Halo2 on live, though that took some time to set up correctly to avoid the mod-ban. And no, I do not cheat. What is the point of ‘winning’ if you know in your heart that you are actually a pathetic tool? Kudos to Microsoft (among other companies *cough* Sony *cough* Apple *cough) for intentionally crippling the hardware and software abilities of their products to maintain some sort of tenuous grip over their customer base in a futile effort to maximize profits. Then again, I guess they are winning if the world is filled with people like you ready to toe the company line. I’ll just stick to my XBMC and Rockbox thank you very much.
Modding a console isn’t illegal, but using the XDK without a license from MS is. Thus your copy of XBMC likely falls into that territory. Not that I’m against that. I’m more against the MS (and others) philosophy that you can’t write code for consoles.
Interesting additional case btw.
“The Xbox always reports ‘yes’ or ‘no’ as to whether or not it’s been modified, but this is the first time that any of us know of that this has happened: your Xbox 360 is reporting ‘maybe’. We’re going to spend a lot of time investigating how this happened and if the problem doesn’t fix itself, call us back in 2 business days”"
It’s more sounding like ppl @ the service-centre that are not into the story. If the XBOX reports ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to a question, isn’t it strange that there is an option ‘maybe’?
Really sounds like bogus to me. Are you a sercice-center employee, yes, no or maybe?
It may do 4 tests, and report true on 2 and false on the other 2. That’s in support-jargon a “maybe”.
well to be honest all these mods are illegal under the DMCA, 1) the firmware is copywrited code, so modifying is breaking the copywrite, 2) as for the xbox1 the only mod that does not break the DMCA is the Cromwell(sp?) linux BIOS as it is not a modified version of the copywrited BIOS as all other hacked bioses are.
Oh and also because the DVD rom firmware breaks the Copy Protection Systems it infringes on that part of the law too, with that in mind how legal is the linux xbox1 BIOS considering it breaks the CPS, the answer is it is legal because it removes the ability to copy games….
sorry bout the rant if it dont make sence but there is a point to it
Microsoft will be putting the fall update on 360 disc’s and it will be auto blocking 360’s
don’t update don’t play the newest games simple, and if your modded you FUKED!
So you work @ MS and you know all?
It’s funny. There was the same rumour with the 06-06-06 update. The devilish update. You’ll here this with every update out there.
And if modded will be fuked? Fuked nice word. I am so curious for the fall update of the 31st now for all those that did mod their drives!
Your an idiot, and jelous.
I can feel my brain melting reading the comments in this news post.
Yes, I know. I like watching Curry own people that think they know what they’re talking about, but don’t.
I think detecting modders is excellent and hopefully they all get a ban.
Mine is flashed , I could careless if I get banned from live … I have Every american game released and even Football Manager 06 which is region free ( woo ) for the cost of 2 usd a game … Its worth it .
No it’s not, you won’t finish any games, just download and collect them. Have fun with it. I love playing and finishing my games on my non-modded 360.
Don’t you all question yourself why there are only very few of these stories online?
Knowing so many people modded their drive as I hear everywhere the internet should be flooded with these kind of stories. Which is not.
So untill that happens I will still say it’s bogus
So because it’s not a full force attack yet it’s fake?
If this guy’s story is true the detection isn’t failsafe, which would indicate it makes a lot of sense that they aren’t doing anything on large scale yet.
The M.A.R.T. is right here guys. This is fake. There are no “security codes” that say whether a 360 is modded or not. And, at this time, many people are still playing on Xbox Live with their backup copies. The M.A.R.T.’s previous comments about 100% firmware and media stealth are correct. The firmware cannot even be dumped by the Xbox 360, the checksum is that of the original unmodified firmware, and the games appear exactly like original discs because they are 1:1 exact copies. There isn’t much that Microsoft can do about this now, they can’t change the discs or they won’t work on old Xbox 360 systems. And they can’t change the firmware because they locked their own firmware from changes. Really, the only thing Microsoft can do at this point is CD-Keys like with PC games. And if that happens, you know their will be a huge backlash from the gaming community.
That’s bull and you know it. MS controls the kernel, MS controls the discs. The firmware HAS to lie about the disc signature, hence faking part of encrypted disc contents. To do this, assumptions will have to be made about protocols that Microsoft can change whenever they want…. because THEY and only THEY have the private key. End of story, they can detect.
I don’t know HOW they detect, but it may very well be an experimental process that is still accidentally generating false positives. Perhaps there is a fundamental flaw in the replacement firmware codes. Who knows?
One fact remains: that MS is holding all the cards. The firmware is merely emulation, and every time a new game is released its flaws may become exposed.
Your reply is reason enough to not believe the entire article, as you’re the one who posted it. If you’re going to argue something, know how it works first.
The firmware hacks do NOT break the signature on files and they do NOT break the encryption. If they did, the games wouldn’t even work. The only thing that the firmware hack does is report the media being used as XBOXDVD, no matter what it really is. That’s it, simple. It’s nothing special but it works.
This is also the reason why all games have to be 1:1 exact copies. You mess with a file then it breaks the encryption and signature and it won’t boot. The fact that you’re claiming the firmware hack breaks signatures is proof enough to anybody reading that you honestly do not know what you are talking about. And that’s reason enough to show this entire article is bogus. Right now, there are thousands of people running modified firmware. The number of people banned from Xbox Live as a result of that still stands to zero.
pwned
This article is BS. They are NOT banning people.
Thank you for giving a proper explanation for that remark.
You are pulling news out of your a$$. Nobody is getting banned. This was an accident that the person was banned due to it saying the console was modified. This is not new. I waited 14 hours in a line to get my xbox 360 and on the first day, I tried to get on live with it at 12:30AM and I was unable to get on xbox live because it said my xbox 360 was modified, the author of this article is making this shit up.
Stop being a dick and follow the link in the article and this link. People are being banned, fact. Support tells them it’s because of modding, fact. Whether that definitely means Microsoft is starting to structurally ban modders: noone knows. Facts remain that within the last 2 weeks independent isolated cases have been reported of people getting kicked off Live because of modding.
If you read the thread in the above link the guy with all of the trouble does not even hav his 360 modded ??
Does that change anything except that he has a reason to complain? He wouldn’t if it was modded would he?
In which of the 2 isolated cases were they banned because of firmware modding. NO ONE HAS BEEN BANNED FOR FIRMWARE! People have been banned from live since day 1, that is a fact. I know in at least 1 case someone was banned “for modding” for cloning a hard drive. You cannot lump all bans into one. Why do people comment on things they know nothing about, like this article along with the majority of responses
If you mod, you pirate, full stop.
Don’t bother with the excuse that you import games, thats just used on every forum by pirates.
You people deserve EVERYTHING you get, if you do this mod.
Piracy, is piracy, and MS depends on the sale of software, not hardware. Unless you all want to see the demise of the 360 ?
I hope MS ban every f*cker for using this mod, as will serve them right. Personally, I would put in some firmware to trash people’s machines, then laugh at them as they, quite pathetically attempt to sue MS, lol.
Here again, you cannot import games with the firmware hack, no one is using that as an excuse. What people do with their system, is their business. As far as morales go, that is their business too. You can’t change the way people think, so why try?
Wow its on the internet it must be true!
I dont think they will do much about the consoles which have been firmware modded … their way of combatting it is stopping the newer consoles being done by putting hard glue over the points. MS dont wanna risk losing the revenue they make from live subs and arcade downloads etc.
The newer firmwares are 100% stealth and the latest game images are also stealth patched. What this article fails to mention is that commodore4eva, the hack designer, said way back before it was even out that due to the nature of the hack it would be possible to always stay one step ahead of Microsoft. I think MS have resigned themselves to the fact that only a handful of ppl have modded their hardware and are happy to just put out new drives that can’t be modded to combat the problem.
this is all crap there has been no info in the REAL scene site about this.
OK, I’ve read some of the comments and I just want to say that it seems pretty unbelievable to me, for various reasons.
Live! is a premium service - you pay for it. Even if you were to use a game backup, there’s no way you can get on Live! for free. Why would Microsoft deliberately ban people and force themselves to lose money? That would be completely idiotic and unrealistic.
The Live! subscriptions alone must generate Microsoft millions of dollars in *profit*, it’s an integral part of the entire system.
Suppose you had modified your console and downloaded some game backups illegaly, I’m sure you’d probably find several titles you’d want to play online - that’s one of the big appeals of the Xbox series. This WILL cost you money and there’s no way of circumventing that, regardless of how much modifying you do to your console. It’s a guaranteed stream of income for the reported 25% of consoles that are connected to Live!
Forget it, the article is a joke and is clearly an attempt at spreading fear amongst people who have modified or are thinking of modifying their consoles. It seems to be doing a good job of that, too.
HAHA!!! u guys are jokers!!! aint nothing going to happen! no one is banning anyone, firmware will last longer than before, ms cant do shit! but sell xbxos with different drives. end of. I am modder i make loads of money off it and o download games and pirate them too!! so WHAT!! haha!!…….But do i ? who knows…!!! LOL!!
Clearly you are also a tit. Fuck off back in you hole.
yo, noob, i know who you are now
mail me at esw3k@hotmail.com and i will tell you your real name,
Your name is Elias, you’re some nerd that was banned from GoT and then came here to bitch, got banned here, wrote a funny letter to Curry, got pwned and you’re now awaiting another ban. Good job at sucking at life kid.
I never saw that letter, i don’t think anyway.
Post it we can all laugh.
You dumbass American twat.
While MAC addresses only need to be unique on a physical subnet, they are coordinated to be globally unique. If they weren’t, vendors would either have to know which devices were deployed on the same subnet, or the end-users would have to configure the MAC addresses manually, to guarantee uniqueness.
And they regularly do, most ethernet cards support MAC overwrites, and many routers/modems support MAC cloning. Also it’s a known fact that Asian NIC manufacturers have erroneously fabricated duplicate MACs on their hardware.
That’s not the point. He’s trying to correct the article which says “would be plain silly since MAC addresses are known not to be unique” which is false. The point in the article should have been a MAC wouldn’t be a viable solution because it’s so easy to dupe, not that a MAC isn’t unique. And your Asia argument is very ancient and limited in scope, if I’m remembering the correct event.
I agree, plus the MAC address is available outside the subnet if a software developer decides to send it. The firmware or games could phone home with the MAC address and the xbox serial number and provide a unique identifier to customer support.
pfftt…..this article is absolute nonsense and the people claiming they know what is going on are just as gullible as the fools that believe them.
Quote: considering the ‘inventor’ of the hack confirmed in March already that the mods are easily detectable
ive actually talked online with c4eva the creator of the hack, he said the exact oposite infact its very difficult for MS to do a low level scan of firmware.
if you are worried you should upgrade to latest version 42B
lol Badman
One of the coolest features of the 360 is it’s seamless integration with Xbox Live. If there is ever a possibility of losing that functionality, there’s no way I’d mod my 360. It’s just not worth it.
I don’t care about the live bans, this is to all you people who posted saying you hope the pirates get busted or killed soon, I hope it comes back to bite you in the ass. You wish people bad because you don’t have the bottle to mod your own system? That is actually worse than piracy.
oh and remember the 1 month free gold live subscription? Well change your profile and email address and it gives it to you again and again. I know people who have 40 games, play them all online and are not paying for either live or the games. The only running cost is the expensive verbatim media.
Nice to see M$ doing nothing to replace my £49.99 copy of CoD2 (thats over 100USD) on launch when my 360 chewed it up.
Sounds like a scare tactic being used, and as far as i know a system update won’t do fuck all to the DVD drives firmware that has re-write protection built in. The 0800 disc can unlock it, so if M$ wanted to mess with it it would have to be incorporated into the system FW.
I doubt it.
At best they can incorporate more security measures put into the game dics themselves, but there will always be a work around.
New security measures, no matter how impossible they seem to be initially, will always be cracked somewhere along the line. Fact
hey, dipshit, i live in america, it would be 60USD.
Really? At the current exchange rate ( 1:1.897 ) I think it would be closer to 95USD.
I know people are all into piracy but really there is no reason to do it. I modded the crap out of my original Xbox but it came down to this: If the game sucks I don’t want to play it, if it is good then the developers deserve their money. People sit around and have scores of pirated movies and games shoved in sleeves on recordable discs. It’s pretty lame. You can’t resell or trade-in copied games or systems when it is time for another game console, what’s the use other than to brag to your friends and think of yourself as “cool.” That’s great there are ways around paying for stuff, but really it’s just stealing from people who have put a lot of work into a great product. Xbox Live happens to be an absolutely lovely service and it is sad to hear that people are so petty as to not pay $5 a month (or $4 a month if you buy a year subscription)! Come on! It’s sad to think that when great games like Gears and Halo 3 come out there will be people ripping off the developers after all their hard work.
I hope those who pirate games, get free Live, or eventually find ways to cheat online and ruin everyone else’s experience get nailed by MS. You can try to turn it around and make me a bad guy but stealing a $60 game is stealing a $60 game.
This is the digital age, this is the same debate as mp3’s, it just isnt as widespread. One of the first things I learned about copying a disc still holds true: If it can be read, it can be copied. People shouldn’t worry about what’s going on next door.
You know what’s funny is Microsoft basically caused this. Xbox 1 .. was hacked but couldn’t play backups online. So that forced people to pay for games if they wanted to play them on Live.
The Xbox 360 did not allow the use of homebrew code or Linux. So hackers had to look elsewhere, and it ended up being the DVD firmware. Think about it, if the main security wouldn’t have been so good, nobody would have been trying to hack the DVD drive firmware and people wouldn’t be playing backups on Live.
this is BS, but microsoft are working on xbox 3, and i can imagine that will be a toughy to break, they will learn from their mistakes, and i think it will be impossible to do the xbox 3
so to all modders out there, enjoy xbox 360 as it’s here to stay
Kmach-I hope those who pirate games, get free Live, or eventually find ways to cheat online and ruin everyone else’s experience get nailed by MS. You can try to turn it around and make me a bad guy but stealing a $60 game is stealing a $60 game.
————————————————
I know,isn’t it great.i love piricy the only cost i got is $100 for the xbox,my game collection is virtually a complete list of every US release and a few jap.
i live in a small town and i am the game store
i went as far as to put up flyers avertising pirated game,on the police stations bulletin board.
as for getting busted.im tired of living and would love my last moments to be getting my face riped of in a shoot out
Cheer up goth.
Hahahahahahahahaha.
To be honest I would hope that people like you do get your face ripped off in a shootout.
1) because it’s such a common way to die these days that it would not make you special in anyway whatsoever which is clearly something you crave.
2)Because you clearly offer society no use whatsoever and you are a drain on the worlds resources that more deserving people should make use of.
its sour grapes, look at his gamerscore, also look how old the topic is when the guy posted his problem, its over 2 weeks old. How do these scare monger topics get to front page news is beyond me.
He probably got banned by either a)people complaining to MS about his stupidly high score either by saying he must be using backups or b) using game saves and game boosting methods.
Man some of these reactions are sickening, I sincerely hope you get banned from Live and that someone robs you of all your possessions.
this is BS for sure
Yeah, let us all get banned and there will be noone left in Live.
Haha yeah I’m sure 100% of the 4 million Live users have a modded 360.
Well at least I wouldn’t have to deal with obnoxious fuckwits like you thenh.
By ‘you’ he means Bonger btw. Ain’t that right Glovnie?
Correct.
The person who wrote this is an irresponsible writer and the person who reported the banning is an idiot. No bannings have been done yet. You cannot base a conclusion on one idiots technical issues (or even a few idiots). Nice to see this site is not reputable.
The person who wrote this post cannot read does not understand speculation or anyones right to comment on it.
You sir are a fuckwit, your comments are blase and fleeting, you have no substance, stop breathing now.
I see it even more now.
You are trying to defend your own article.
Come on man, chat with me, i will so srew you up
It’s not my article you dyslesic fuck, and more to the point what the fuck are you doing back anyway. As for “you will fuck me up”, you have never managed to win any argument you have had on here except in your own fucked up little mind.
god you need an edit, “dyslexic”.
That “irresponsible writer” is the guy who owns this site
Somehow i can’t sign in @ xbox.com or visit any of the forums. but im still able to use xbox-live anyone know whats up ??
Look at all of you modding pirating fuckers freaking out because the site has reported that you “MAY” be in danger.
Shitting you little white cotton Y’s that your may soon have an expensive paperweight. Well I hope you all do, then I hope you get a knock on the door from the police who pick you up for piracy, and your drunken dad for beating your mom, who is probably pregnant with her 12th child so you can get more money of the social since you can’t afford to pay for a game yourself, and the only reason it becomes more expensive for the rest of us is your selfish attitude.
Yeah and you are the most intelligent person to post on this topic :ugh:
Clearly nowhere near as intelligent as you to deliver that retort.
Fucking arse.
‘paperweight’ (the word), i have seen you use it many many times.
Spread out over different posts, perhaps because it describes the situation well. I also use the word “and” quite a lot, would you like me to leave that out?
So your point like usual makes little sense. Shut the fuck up, you have nothing to offer and you will end up being banned again soon enough.
I can think of a few other words I’ve seen you use a lot…
Fair point but they usually are quite fitting for what I am looking to say.
arse is getting old.
Well we’ll change it to shitter for the next couple of posts just to keep you happy then.
Glovner or whatever the dip shit fuck your name is, what the hell is up your ass with your ‘ fuckwit’ comments, are you a moron or something? a retard perhaps?
I read all the comments in this thread and the only high 12 year old in here is you, mr.fuckwit.
Please, STFU and swallow a knife will ya?
Jesus Christ retarded kids these days |:
Okay because your comments are clearly adult shown by the fact you use the word retarded more than you really need to.
Buy a fucking thesaurus you cunt.
At what point did I start talking about 12yr olds? So you are dyslexic as well as stupid.
Don’t get angry at me because you are the one freaking out that your cheap games may end up costing you more than you thought.
At the end of the day you are a thief and the only onw benefiting from crime is the criminal, so if you want to discuss it like adults maybe you should fucking grow up first you slavering cheap little fuck.
Am I a moron? A retard perhaps?
What is the fucking point of asking that question?
Let me put it in perspective with another question. Are you a girl? A woman perhaps?
You see two questions are not needed when one would have done.
You guys are all morons and have no idea what you are talking about. Go through, read the code that is modified, and see what the drive response table is for each command. Reflashing the entire firmware isnt feasible in some cases and is too risky. The new hitachi drives do not have a write function, so how do you purpose flashing it with a non-modified fw without using an external programmer.
As far as bricking a box, someone claimed they owned the 360 and MS would be in a world of hurt if they were to brick thier box. Well you own the box, but MS owns the software on that box. They can easily brick the software on a modded box and a user would have very little recourse. Dish Network has been doing this for years! If does force the “scene” to work harder and only forces them to get smarter. Dish would send code that would wipe the eeproms clean on modded boxes. The hackers then learned to re-flash the chips. This went on for awhile until the hackers “locked” that chip down. Dish target another chip. And so on. It was a pain in the arse for those modders.
I think MS can do the same. They dont as they do not want the publicity, bad or otherwise of starting a prolonged public battle with the hackers. (Who are also clients.)
They will make subtle changes here and there at this point to keep the scene at bay, but I would guess that will be all they do.
Honestly, can’t all you piracy-loving twats just die? You deserve to be excoriated and crucified before the eyes of your incompetent families. Don’t make the same mistake your parents did, and use birth control. Or if that doesn’t work, at least use a coat hanger to abort the unwanted fetus like you should have been in the first place.
Microsoft should hire some huge guys to go to your houses and brutally sodomize you worthless little pirates while wearing sandpaper condoms and using glass-shard anal lube.
“Modders Suck”…
GROW UP MAN …. people who choose to mod do not deserve to die, its their decision. As it stands it appears that ms cant really do much apart from improve the security on the newer consoles. But some of your comments appear childish and out of order. Surely you can get your point across without resorting to comments like that.
Just read that the new update is due to roll out tomorrow …. so i suppose the firmware flashed people will find out soon if their consoles will be ok …. personally i think they will be ok. I hold and bear no grudges …. each to their own … good luck guys.
Comment by The_Glovner on 2006-10-30 17:48:23 | Reply
>
Speculation is not:
“Microsoft is banning 360 firmware modders”
If you read the above post (or could read), you would see that. I shall give you some excerpts to help you along:
“It appears that Microsoft is finally taking action against them though, although they may be hitting the wrong persons.”
“Whatever the details, we can probably consider it a fact that MS is currently acting against modded Xbox 360s, and you should start worrying if you’ve got a firmware replacement in your concave box: the Empire is Striking Back.”
Neither of these are speculation and currently there is no basis in fact for these statements.
Do I think MS is trying to implement changes in their system to thwart modders? Sure I do and at some point I think they may be able to do something. Is it with this update? I don’t believe so, but I certainly could be wrong. Do I think they have done anything yet? Nope. No evidence to that fact anywhere.
Are you an idiot? Yup. You sure are.
The problem is you cannot read something and take it with a pinch of salt.
Clearly they may be looking into doing something which is given away by the fact that small amounts of people are being banned correctly or not. Which would lead you to believe that once they have the issue sorted out then it may well become more widespread in their banning, until then the facts presented just offer speculation.
Read between the lines and don’t take everything at face value, now stop being a dick and go and fucking bore someone else.
Okay so just don’t go online. Problem solved.
Since the hardware is under the control of Microsoft the MAC addresses can indeed be unique as far as Xbox360 is concerned, so this is a valid way to identify a unique XBox360 system.
So while your systems may or may not have a MAC address conflict with another system on the same subnet, MS won’t really care, it is unique to Xbox360.
MS controls the hardware, the software, and the Live service, in effect they operate the “system” much like the Bells do. This is the way that MS can effectively sap every cent you own if you wish to play on their heavily regulated system. This is old monopolistic tactics pure and simple.
I totally agree with your points about the 360’s MAC addressing. But then I got to:
Game consoles by definition and by design are closed systems. That way developers don’t have to consider hundreds of video and audio cards, driver versions, processor types, etc. They write programs for one or a few established, clearly specified systems.
MS does have a tight grip on their system. However much UNlike the Bell’s telephone system, Xbox Live is not a utility, not integral to commerce or public safety, not primarily a means to enable worldwide communication.
There is an unregulated system where we can use any brand of peripherals, make our own games and pay no subscription fee. It’s called “internet.”
It’s quite common to use the MAC as a serial or include the serial in the MAC (following the vendor specific prefix).
MACs are indeed globally unique unless the vendor fucks up and reuses them or someone overrides their default MAC.
Well there is only a couple of ways I can see an accidental banning. 1 a used game system since MS hasnt done anything with these since March it is possible that some might have made it to the stores used. Would hope they wouldnt pass MS referb process. Or 2 the ID of the hardware has been duped(if this is possible) by chance and locked the live account as soon as it saw the ID. I would hope this is simply acase of them getting caught though.
Ok. Seriously. There is a big difference between a pirate/an online cheat/and someone legitimately backing up their software. IMHO only the middle should be targetted. If you target the first you will hurt everyone else. Look at the stupid cd check that most PC games do. Whats the point? To stop piracy. And its so easy to copy a game nowadays it only hurts legitimate users.
And to all those who hate Piracy? Its great. In china where they pirate everything legitimate games (box and all) are only about $7 and movies legit are $5. See how piracy pays.
yeah boy
funny shit this one, i bookmarked it to see on my new laptop in a few days
I like how people complain about piracy with console games. The fucking things are overpriced. $30-$60 for a game?!
*yawn* wake me up when they crack teh sig and get a 360 version of XBMC. Might be worthwile buying one then.
I just want to clarify to the fact of me linking up to this article. I linked it up in question to the fact that it should be investigated as to whether it was the case that the firmware hack was involved in this matter.
Which was also my intention with this article
And also to clarify what was wrong with the reports.
Some people can’t properly understand words like “probably” though. And the discussion about MAC addresses proves enough about the technical knowledge of the average commenter though
I do not approve of modding or pirating. I am just posting here to clear up the MAC question. Individual nic hardware makers are assigned regions of mac address that are supposed to be unique. The DECNET spec requires MAC addresses to be changeable although no one I know thinks there is a good reason for that feature. MAC addresses are used by the address resolution protocol to associate IP numbers with hardware adapters. End of story.
IIRC, there was an instance where one of the NIC manufacturers put out a run of ethernet cards with duplicate MAC addresses. It was a manufacturing error–essentially, the device which programs the MAC address into the card broke down and started repeating addresses. I don’t know how many cards were affected.
This caused headaches for some sites that order ethernet cards in bulk, since they undoubtedly ended up with a batch of identical ethernet cards.
the newest firmware xtreme 4.2 that everyone uses when dumped is just like a virgin xbox360 firmware thus undectable read forums before you speak
Soft-programmable MAC addresses come in handy in environments which make heavy use of static ARP entries (for whatever reason). If you have to replace a NIC either due to failure or a hardware upgrade, you may find yourself updating a large number of ARP entries, and inevitably you’ll miss a few. Soft-programmable MAC addresses make this much easier–simply program in the old MAC address and you’re good.
Another place where it comes in handy is when running bonded ethernet (for increased throughput or link redundancy). Essentially, the cards must appear to other nodes as a single NIC with one MAC address–that way, failovers are transparent to other devices on the network. It would be very difficult to implement bonded ethernet without reprogrammable MAC addresses.
To the guy in the article that talks about MAC Addresses … check your facts please.
MAC Addresses are unique and they are sent via the network … maybe you should pack your XBox back in the box and give it back … you obviously should not be using it or making statements like that.
The Media Access Control (MAC) data communication protocol sublayer is the part of the seven-layer OSI model data link layer (layer 2). It makes it possible for several terminals or network nodes to communicate within a subnetwork, typically a local area network (LAN) or metropolitan area network (MAN).
The MAC layer provides the protocol and control mechanisms that are required for a certain multiple access method, making it possible for several stations connected to the same physical medium to share it. Examples of shared physical media are bus networks, ring networks, hub networks, wireless networks and half-duplex point-to-point links. Examples of packet mode multiple access methods are CSMA/CD, CSMA/CA and Token ring. In these schemes, the MAC protocol determines who is allowed to access the physical media at any one time.
The MAC layer also provides an addressing mechanism called physical address or MAC address. This is a unique serial number assigned to each network adapter, making it possible to deliver data packets to a destination within the subnetwork.
The MAC sub layer acts as an interface between the Logical Link Control sublayer and the network’s physical layer.
Not only did you fail to make a valid point, you failed to prove him wrong in anyway whatsoever. The MAC address of your device is only known by the nearest switch/router. Anywhere past that and the device is only known by its IP address.
What I don’t get is how these software companies can get away with putting restrictions on everything. How is it that I can mod my PC box, my car, create my own DVR, but I can’t change the way my console runs or works. We can’t cut out the firewall and put a bigger engine in the console but there are other things that could improve the performance and ability of our hardware. Companies and corporate america wonder why it’s hard to find new innovative employees, while crushing the innovative spirit by their laws and code. I should have the same rights to Pimp my console as I do to Pimp my Ride.
The fall update has arrived…. are the firmware flashed consoles still able to connect to live ??
Well now you royal cluster fuck The_Glovner, i have an FW and i downloaded the update with 0 problems.
Now you can go along with my holy blessings to jump out the window you freaking idiot =D
I’ll open the window for him.
Well keep the window open and I’ll fucking boot your arse right through it as well, little cunts.
Well you can take you holy blessings and ram them right up your fucking saggy arse crack.
My point was never saying that “with this update modders, hackers, cheaters and pirates will be banned”.
My point was I hoped you were because at the end of the day all you do is fuck it up for other people you selfish little prick, now you can have my blessing to dissapear with your inflated head up your own fucking anus.
well done for trying Sam did you manage to play a backup on xbl?
Ok everyone needs to stop wasting their money on gaming consoles and just purchase a real gaming PC. Gaming consoles always do a hack job on their games, thrown together games, and they are in no way even close to going into the level of complexity that a gaming PC has.
Make your own PC it’s cheaper!
Yup, i can play backup with my modded 360, works like a charm, they managed to get rid of the lag too with the update, thanx microsoft
yup, thnx MC, playing backups just as well as before, even better! lol
People downloading games and burning them when they never originally intended to buy them is no different than borrowing a game or playing it at a friend’s house.
If you think piracy is harmful or morally wrong at this scale, you should also feel that experiencing entertainment media at all without emptying your pockets should be wrong as well. If you don’t, you aren’t looking at the big picture.
Some people could download and burn every game for Xbox 360 while still spending hundreds to thousands of dollars on Xbox games in a year.
You want them wiped out completely for something harmless? There’s no difference in money exchanged when someone pirates something they never intended to buy. All that’s changes is they’ve shifted distribution entirely in their favor and will never buy something that sucks again. Or, do you care about the creators of shitty games too? I think profiting from piracy is approaching “slimy” territory, but certainly not people downloading games for themselves etc. They’re just enjoying a perk, just like rich people that can afford every game do by being rich.
Think before you spew hate you fools.
come on guys just admit it we “steal”games,movies,software for one reson.we dont think it worth the money,and its not.your paying up to $60 for a piece of polycarbonate plastic.
now just think about it and let it sink in.thats right your buying plastic,and its not some hi-tech,scratch/brake proof disc.i would much rather take my money and buy a new hard drive and remove media from the picture.
so the next time you want to call a “modder/enhancer” a retard,jut remember your the ones buying plastic at a 500% markup.
My 360 didn’t explode at 2am! Sorry to disappoint all you haters. See you online! bahhahahahhaha
Modbreak: Assisting in illegal acts is a bannable offence, last warning.
all those haters out there just remember theres never been 1 console released by any manufacture that hasnt been hacked at some point so think about that before you go making claims such as this.
Putting it simply: Piracy = Theft
Shame they don’t treat thieves like they do out in Saudia Arabia and cut the f**kers hands off!
Modders - If you have to cheat to win you are no better than atheletes who take drugs to gain an unfair advantage. What is the thrill in pwning someone who can’t fight back on equal terms.
To dvd+r: You are indeed a wanker. When you buy a game, you’re not just paying for a piece of plastic, you are paying for:-
1.The wages of the guys who design and develop the game, who often work long hours up until the game goes ‘gold’ ironing out the bugs, etc.
2.The manufacturing process including the artwork/packaging and the printing costs, the equipment and sofware development tools that the software house created to make the game.
Piracy does not equal theft. It is copyright infringement. When you steal something from somebody you physically take it away and they no longer have it. Piracy is only infringing the rights of the copyright owner because you are not stealing anything you are copying it.
Uh, Pirates are not wankers. Piracy, is not theft. I love how all the companies out there sit there crying “oh we’re going broke because nobody buys our games” No. Wrong.
If i go, and am forced to spend $100 on a game that is a piece of shit (collector’s ed Prey, in CAD), i will be pissed right off about it. Similarly, if i spend $40-50 on a single player experience, and it’s shit, i’ll be pissed. What’s the common thread? Piracy is NOT killing gaming, NOT killing movies, NOT killing music. If it was, these three industries would have died out in the 80s when everone stopped buying albums and simply taped everything.
What kills these industries is a shitty product. If a publisher starts up, and strikes gold at first, yet goes downhill, it’s because their game wasn’t worth it. Leave that up to terrible programming, bad graphics, horrid gameplay - the works, basically.
Not to mention, you all seem to assume that every modder is “evil” and bent on hacking and pirating every game they touch. Wrong. Considering that 95% of us don’t want to put up with Microsoft’s shit, and be forced to used pressed DVDs, or even buy a MCE PC to use a 360 as a media center, i see it as MORE than justified when a firmware hack comes along to make this happen.
So what does it come down to then? Who cares - honestly - if people pirate the single player titles. Who loses out? The developers? Hardly. What needs to be done is what i have been saying for years. Single Player will bait a player for a while, but online multiplayer is what will make them hooked. Simply make it so you NEED a valid key/disk/etc to go online, and you’ll be fine.
Oh, and i’m all for nuking cheaters, though.
Perhaps the Firmware Modifier was truely a microsoft employee and purposly made it detectable. Or the Firmware Modifier stoled a firmware from microsoft by hacking, but microsoft purposely put the detectable firmware in an easy to hack directroy. Sorta makes you think. Remember when CounterStrike banned thousands of people and all the banned people swore they had a legit game…CounterStrike (Valve) proved they had a pirated copy. HAHAHA…ROFLMAO. Just proves how many Liers there are in this world.
Not sure about a Microsoft employee, but in the end, the FW is great and now that the update has passed and Nov. is coming up, it sure will be a great year for everyone.
Nah, this is just a warmup for the real banhammer.
they need to sort their products b4 trying to ban users
Don’t think so.
This’s the most important update before the most important month of the year, November.
If they didn’t ban your holy ass by now then it’s no use banning you later, by then their will be A LOT of advanced FWs and stealth Modchips.
Nope, I expect the real ban parade when Halo3 is released
I have my firmware modded …. but believe it or not the only back up games i have are of originals which i already own …. i will not buy a back up unless i own an original … i play the back up and keep the original nice and safe. Am i doing that much wrong ??
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Nope, I expect the real ban parade when Halo3 is released
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That is a long time, until then, F.E.A.R, Gow, G.R.A.W, RS:V and the rest of Live games should be more than a good entertainment.
Until the so-called Banning starts, prices will drop and everything’ll be more stable and worth the bucks.
Until the so-called Banning starts, prices will drop and everything’ll be more stable and worth the bucks.
lmao i aint gonna hold my breathe then
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lol ??more scare tacticks??
I’m expecting in 2-3 updates for there to be a timed ‘payload’ that restores your firmware with a new version (with the verification codes that are onboard the chip) and adds some sort of signing to the firmware itself and a verify firmware,read data,verify firmware execute read data (might even read a random range of firmware PLUs the checksum every time a new file from the disc is accessed and give an error and reflash itself.. hey if a computer can flash the firmware via it’s sata why couldn’t the 360?)
HAHA GO AHEAD BAN ME YOU FAGS THIS SITE SUCKS ANYHOW GOTO WWW.XBOX-SCENE.COM THATS THE REAL SITE NOT THIS CRAP
sad…. thats all i can say zell, get a life, grow up, and if its not to much of a push (which im sure it is), try to get laid..
@dvd+r you are a wanker-
lets break it down
if microsoft sold 1,000,000 copies of a game at $60 a pop,thats $60m. now say i could get dvd cases for $.50 each(im sure m$ can get them cheaper)thats $500,000.so now i have $59,500,000 left.And you can figure that an average game programer makes $54300 a year.say you have a 30 man team,thats $1,629,000.so now you have $57,871,000. now we can keep the covers and booklet(even tho its 2006 and we should just have a in game menu)even at $.50 a cover and $1 a book thats still only 1,500,000.so we now have a figure of
$56,371000 divide that by 1,000,000 disc and you get $56.37 a disc and even with paying salary for a 200 man dev team you still end up paying $48.64 a disc. so i guess i was wrong you dont pay $60 for just a pice of plastic;just close to is
next time ill do the math to show how the game industry would make more by selling games for $10
F.E.A.R is selling for 60$ on the 360 while the PC version is selling for 20$, why should i pay 40$ more ?
just buy a new disc drive off e-bay for £55, or if they brick my 360, fuck them, i’ll get a ps3 instead
Well I hope you enjoy it, why not cook a steak on it for me?
I like modding for fun, i don’t sell games, mod for others. So Mr. Gates does what he feels he has to. O.K. game on. its about fun.
I’m 110% happy that they are doing something about this. Good job!
MS should definitely ban modded 360’s!
Well thanks for that Tom, needed a 5 month old thread resurrected for that one.
i will buy modded xbox 360 cause i dont care aboutlive i am not a noob 2 play on live i have 3 xbox 360 n which are not modded dats how it feels to b rich
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