So, for all those peeps out there whining about people ruining the game industry by modding their xbox’s, please get a clue, and try not to be taken in by popular media’s attempts to make modders out to be thieves, I haven’t stolen anything, and never will, the only games played my xbox’s are BOUGHT and PAID FOR, thank you.

Z
HaCKed By ÇaMuR

TurkisH HackeRS

CaMuR@LinuxMail.Org

No matter what your opinion is, theres nothing you can say nor do to keep the 360 from getting hacked. If so many many millions of dollars have been spent into the development of the 360, then why is it able to be hacked? If theres a flaw in the machine that goes in my favor, I’m exploiting it. I don’t give a damn about nothing else except all the possible things I can do with MY console that I bought. So if copying games is a thorn is your ass, then work for MS and make sure people like me can’t hack your precious Xbox. As far as business is concerned, Bill you messed up.

Just in case I will try to explain this in more simplistic terms for you in case your are just a young little punk and not retarted.

if you legally posesses (now note I said LEGALLY not ILLEGALLY) content such as Super Mario Brothers for the NES

You then DOWNLOAD a rom of this same game. TECHNICALLY your are not only NOT breaking the law but are fully within your legal rights to do exactly that.

NOW this does not mean the whole transaction is legal. but YOUR END of it as the downloader is perfectly legal. Once again just in case your mind does not grasp this all of this rest on your LEGALLY posessing copies of the roms in question.

if you download XYZ rom and have NEVER legally owned XYZ game then you are definately breaking the law by downloading that rom.

all the above is only DOWNLOAD side.

Now lets talk UPLOAD side. under NO conditions is any current rom download site that I am aware of legal. They upload the roms (not in an dof itself illegal) but make them available to ANYONE coming buy. THIS is illegal.

Think of it this way. I make a COPY of a magazine I purchased and leave this on my dinner table.

This is perfectly legal.

I make 10 copies and drop them on the coffee table at WORK. this is NOT legal.

I make a copy and LOAN it to a close friend or relative. LEGAL

I let my friend or relative KEEP the copy while I still retain posession of the orignal NOT LEGAL

See the differences here ? the only way for a ROM site to be legal is to password protect every single file in real time and when I ask for a rom and provide PROOF of ownership the rom person gives me access to the rom that I have proven ownership of. For the purpose of the rom provider a picture of the person with the rom and a drivers license would probably be sufficient to protect them legally (though I certaintly would not want to deal with that issue at all)

if they did this it would technically be totally legal.

NOW the problem we have here is that we have BOTH a LEGAL ACTION and an ILLEGAL action happening at the same time.

An illegal act does not make a LEGAL any any more illegal than a legal act making an illegal act legal.

A good example of this is if a photographer enters an office uninvited and takes pictures.

HE is tresspassing that is illegal.

The Pictures though are LEGAL (with a few exceptions) he is perfectly withing his right to publish sell etc.. those pictures if they are otherwise legal.

the pictures taking does not make the wrongful entry legal but the wrongful entry also does not make the pictures illegal.

NOW we off course know that most people who download roms also download roms they DO NOT have a legal right to.

but this does NOT negate the absolute inarguable correctness of what I said.

IF YOU DOWNLOAD A ROM YOU ALREADY OWN YOU ARE NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS OR RULES AND WILL NEVER GET TAKEN TO COURT FOR FIT IF YOU CAN PROVE AS MUCH !

If you download stuff you DO NOT have a legal right to well then your on your own and taking a big risk.

Again before throwing away my rights please educate yourself before blathering off.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

The Law specifically allows you to make a backup yourself OR HIRE someone to do it for you. So I could legally offer a service where if you bring your NON DRM’d (DMCA) Audio CD’s to me I could make backup copies of them or convert them to mp3 for you (free or for a fee) and its perfectly legal.

The same applies to roms (off course they will tell you otherwise but thats irreelevant you only need to read the law)

Now Like I said and you apparently did not read (glanced through my post did you ?) the UPLOADER the one PROVIDING the files IS in fact breaking the law. there is no question about that and hence why they are (and rightly so) trying to shut down torrents of them etc..

Please educate yourself about the law before voluntary giving up your and my legal rights.

If they take you to court with a list of files you downloaded all you have to do is furnish proof of rightful ownership (original carts will do nicely reciepts will probably also suffice if you happen to have them) and quote the copyright law itself and your off the hook.

but if you have roms and DO NOT have a legaly ownership of them (ie an original etc..) your screwed and rightly so.

copyright law also allows you to backup your DRM’d content but now you have a NEW possible violation. the DMCA (which is not copyright law)

Since the 2 conflict I am very interested in seeing it goto court. I dont think it ever will because I am confident that the RIAA MPAA etc.. know they WILL LOOSE if they try to resolve the conflict.

ie if they sue someone for having a backed up copy of a DVD and that person also owns the original and they try to challenge this on DMCA grounds the DMCA will loose since it violates existing law.

That is why you are not likely to ever see THAT kind of situation get to court IE where a legitimate end user is sued under DMCA

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Either way, i still love a modded xbox that has the ability to play all roms.

On a personal note, I consider myself very ‘left leaning’; I am against DRM in any form, and I agree that Microsoft still abuses their position. I make an active effort to buy ‘home grown’ goods, and I try not to support sweat labour.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand…
You found a review that gave it 8 out of 10, but did you read the part where they finished it in 6 hours? That’s half the time it took for Seadog’s friend to finish it, which was his primary reason for disliking it. The review clearly states that it’s a short game with little replay value. Additionally, the “Another Take” section of the review amplifies areas that were skimmed over, specifically citing game-breaking bugs in the retail copy.

Here are some notible quotes from the various articles I read on it:
“…King Kong is a short but memorable game…”
-IGN
“King Kong is short… really short. The average player will finish the game in about six hours, and for $60, that’s not exactly a great value.”
-G4TV.com
“It isn’t quite as impressive looking as its console counterparts, and it’s a short ride, but there’s still a great time to be had with King Kong on the PC.”
-Cnet, review for the PC version.
“…it may only take seven or so hours to complete, which is on the short side for a $50 video game…”
-CNN

Many reviews rate games beyond the length, such as for graphics and overall production. They all seem to agree that King Kong is fantastic. I get my reviews from Internet forums, where users, such as Seadog, rented the game, and judged it based on that. From time to time, I’ve written reviews.

I will concede one point: I took a major librety by saying that there is a whole industry at work. In the context of a debate, it’s generally not appropriate to use that kind of tactic. I was tired, but that’s no excuse on my part for approaching it the way I did. Thanks for pointing that out.

here’s a link to ign review of king kong giving it an 8 out of 10.
everybody gets bit on the ass…
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/670/670474p1.html

“if your entire argument hinges on the evil, multinational corporations, then I’m afraid you have absolutely no idea how the video game industry works. Here, I’ll draw you a map…”

that is a pretty self righteous statement…

“By effectively annoucing that you are boycotting “large corporations”, you propose to systematically leave programmers without jobs; It also offers justification for more draconion ‘protection’ systems, or harder laws to punish hackers.”

and you certainly have taken some liberties with that one (you have taken too big a turn to be telling that gentleman what HE proposed, and then to say that basically he deserves harsher penalties for his actions… seems a least a little self righteous)

and as for you defense of the “ethics” of M$, i don’t think i have to remind you the judicial system had to basically dust off some serious anti trust laws and come down hard on those vampire thugs.

the entire tone of your statement seems uncanadian to me, and to be honest, i am a little surprised and disappointed…

say whatever you want but if it contributes to the downfall of online competition & fun, it’s bad. but let me be clear—if this happens, blame falls on the xbox 360 team, not the hackers. they chose to not have hd-dvd built in which would help against back-ups or piracy, so if it turns out bad (cheaters online-imo), they have only themselves to blame.

otherwise, i don’t see a problem. it’d be neat to see a hack to allow an HD-DVD drive put inside.

righteous righteous righteous…

It begins with an idea. Corporate identities cannot form ideas, but they can own them. Who, then, creates the idea? People like Miyamoto, who created Mario, or Donkey Kong. They are paid royalties and awarded contracts for more ideas. Nintendo then takes ownweship of the idea. When you copy a game, the people that made the original iteration of the idea are ripped off, however slightly by you.

Can you provide sources that state that all multinational corporations as having no Ethics? How can you possibly compare Nintendo with Wal-Mart or Starbucks? If your assessment of corporations, did you consider that some, such as Honda provide their employees with health and fitness programs? American Apparel is the only clothing company I know of that pays their exclusively on-shore American employees wages that exceed the minimum level.

$50 is expensive? Lets examine what are you’re getting for $50.

First, if your friend bought King Kong, then he wasted his money; It’s a rent at best and nearly every review site blasted it to smitherines. There is a saying: Buyer Beware. It’s not so much about making sure a product works as it is about warning you to research what you buy. Before I buy a game, I check out a few reviews on it. I might even read a bit of a gamefaq entry, not so much as to spoil the plot but to learn about how the plot may progress. Most movie-goer’s do that, and any computer freak worth talkign to will do it for computer components. Google makes it easy, so there really is no excuse.

Lets find ot how much it costs you to play Chrono Trigger is a popular critically acclaimed example, so I feel it’s appropriate; Feel free to substitute your favourite game.It takes about 20-25 hours to complete, depending on how you play it out. Say you paid even $80 when it was new. That means you are paying $3.20/hour to play it. Consider that most movies cost $8-$10 for 2 hours, I’d say you are getting a fantastic deal, plus CT’s innate replay options make it even more compelling.

By contrast, what do you consider a good time? Hitting a pub ($4 - $7/glass o’ beer)? Hitting an amusement park ($10 admission, plus rides and exhibits)?
(This is Canadian pricing, based on the lowest prices for a movie. Min. Wage is $7.45/hour. By the way, I get paid Minimum wage. I still buy my games. That means, each month, I roughly spend an entire day worth of wages on a game.)

I also want to clarify for you that I agree with one point: Hacking is all about progression. It’s a two way street, though. Hackers are more than people the exploit code so assholes can pirate in a more efficient manner. Hacking is also programming. By effectively annoucing that you are boycotting “large corporations”, you propose to systematically leave programmers without jobs; It also offers justification for more draconion ‘protection’ systems, or harder laws to punish hackers.

This is why your kind is passionately hated by most hacker circles.

Consider a better way, and buy games you like. Rent if you have to, but in the end, vote with your wallet.

ksteiner:
ROMS are illegal unless you own the original cartridges. There is no magical 24 hour ‘demo’ period. Whichever download sites you read that from are deluding you.

HA3K3R:
I’M LOLLING SO HARD, THIS MUST BE LAWL SCHOOL!

Pardon the digression, but lets get off the NES debate. The topic is more towards whether modding the Xbox 360 is a good thing, or an evil thing. I mentioned the PSP and NES ROMs because it’s a good example of modding a console to work above and beyond it’s abilities.

I am sorry Rick but you are dead wrong. Fair Use SPECIFICALLY allows for the backup of your content INCLUDING having someone else do it for you !! Its even permissable to CHARGE for this service.

What this means is its PERFECTLY legal for YOU to download roms YOU legally posess though it is likely STILL illegal for the person who offered it to you. THEM breaking the law does not mean YOUR breaking the law.

As of now if you download a rom you legally own it is PERFECTLY LEGAL regardless of what nintendo or anyone else might try to say otherwise.

In fact Section 108 of the copyright law MIGHT EVEN LEGALISE rom sites for OUT OF PRINT games.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

I don’t agree that my entitlment to a backup copy of my games is overridden by an ‘agreement’ I had no access to. No respectible video game shop will allow me to return opened software in any format, and if I buy the game used, I have had no access to the agreement in the first place. I have no way of discuss the terms, and I never signed anything.

To be clear, I buy many of my Nintendo treasure second hand. buying them in new condition makes a rather expensive hobby, and it’s not what I’m interested in.

I can’t find the individual terms of any of my game’s contract unless I specificially try to locate a reproduction of the game’s manual, and to my knowledge, there are no sites that provide copies of the manuals. Ironically, probably illegal to do.

Have any of you considered what the Xbox 360 is capable of? Do any of you look beyond the media’s representation of the typical hacker, to see what they are really about? Many of you have accepted the ‘black hat’ definition - That hackers are evil people who lie and pillage their way to stolen good. A good number of these hackers have tried to justify themselves, but still many of you cry out against them, placing them in prisons.

Just as you spent your $500 for your console, so did they, but most hackers were not happy with the box they got. maybe it is because it scratched a DVD, causing a lcoal rental parlour to enforce a draconion policy where they had to buy a broken copy of a game due to poor engineering on the part of the Xbox 360’s designers. Perhaps it was to extend the media features beyond that which came with their console.

My point is that many hackers are not pirates. Most are simply curious, but unlike the majority of people out there, they were able to act on their innate curiosity. They are beacons of exploration and free speech.

Consider that these hackers have already told Microsoft where the problem is, and that they fully intend to release all the information into the public domain. Had they left out the bit about the debug routines, it’s likely that Microsoft might leave them in for future updates or even generations of consoles. They came clean, and now Microsoft will know what to fix up… or else they will remain lazy and leave the documented flaws in. The ball really is in Microsoft’s court now with regards on how to proceed.

Consider the PSP example: a consumer-level portable with a very small library of ‘must-have’ games. Nintendo has the portable market, yet people are buying the PSP to play, suprise, Nintendo games! Many of these games cannot run on a GBA or Nintendo DS and the PSP provides the power required to run many of these classics. Many emulated classics are unbuyable AND unplayable in their original formats, and even less so on the road. This is a potential market that no one has tapped into and so the community has filled this void themselves. I don’t advocate ROM piracy myself; I own a large library of NES and SNES cartridges, of which I have backup copies on my computer.

Pirates and cheaters are the real enemy. They divide communities apart and give legitimate reverse engineers a bad name. They are dishonest jackasses who don’t deserve to access Xbox live as well as a boatload of other communities. They are the infringers of copyright whi should be punished. The hacker ‘problem’ will never go away but pirates and cheaters who exploit the work of hackers deserve to be stopped.

Please, target your anger appropriately.

You say a whole lot of things that aren’t so wise I must say.

So just because Bill Gates is rich enough it gives you the right to play illegal copies? That’s a strange kind of strategy! So if Bill Gates would be poor, you would buy games because otherwise you wouldn’t feel good about it

So you paid 450 dollars for the console. Which is worth more then that, you paid less than it cost to make, so how can you ever say such stupid things. The price is about the same for a good GPU for a PC. Only the GPU would have cost that amount… MS has made no money on you buying the 360 under the costprice of the thing let stand alone all the other cost made for the total 360 project, the overhead cost that also need to be covered somewhere, somehow. With the old XBOX they lost a lot of dollars already, and this time on the hardware they aren’t winning again.

And how would you like your free games furthermore sir? You really sound as stupid as a pigs ars, games cost a lot of time and money to make. The game studios that invest in such games won’t get paid by the money that MS receives from selling a 360.

The console is your property. Hacking the Firmware of the DVD isn’t the same as copying illegaly and play them through the hack. A backup of media ones own playing through a possible FW hack is a different story.

I must say some people really post strange and stupid things. For all non believers about The Specialist (and others who worked on the DVD FW hack), go and read the 42 pages about the original DVD FW hack for the old XBOX and some of the info about the 360 DVD FW hack at this page:

http://www.xboxhacker.net...;Itemid=33&topic=76.0